>> how do you keep filming when you're getting shot at by 20 taliban members? >> i've got the off switch on. i go for it. you're there for a purpose. we cover the stories not for adrenaline, but we cover them because to these places and bring back what we don't often see back here in the states. that's the first thing. of course, there are moments you cannot think what the hell am i doing here? we felt that the soldier's experience needs to be seen, digested and understood by the american public and honored, i guess, as a starting point for this conversation about the war. no matter how we want to pretend the war is about apaches and missiles and tanks, really the war machine is take a group of young men, train them together, and put them on the side of a mountain and they will kill and be killed for each other. we here really need to understand that. >> welcome to "morning joe." thursday, april 21st, a live picture of new york on set.

contributor mike barnicle, the director of the earth institute of columbia university, dr. jeffrey sachs and chief washington correspondent, norah o'donnell. also here, willie geist. we had tim on this show several times, he and sebastian younger working afghanistan. absolutely critical. he had said once they were trying to build a bridge between the american people and what our soldiers and marines do in afghanistan. i would say that tim heatherington, who died yesterday in libya, did more to bridge that gap along with sebastian than just about anybody else. >> he did. came out of the book of his photographs called "infidel" and co-produced the film, restrepo, great documentary, incredible account of army units efforts in the valley. if you want to know the type of respect tim herathererington ha,

wasn't just a filmmaker, we didn't lose a photojournalist yesterday, we lost a brother. he was one of us. >> he was, you're exactly right, willie, a friend of the people he worked with in war zones. he understood the dangers they dealt with everyday and respected them for it. you know, mike, i called mika yesterday to give her the news. she had actually worked with tim a good bit, who was trying to put together something to get us and other people to go up to westpoint. he -- you know, he loved those kids up there. he understood the sacrifice our soldiers were making. >> you know, joe, photography has been a different thing, always has been. tim obviously was the eyes and ears for the world on a couple different wars. we forget because we live in a culture where wars have been turned into video games for large percentages of people who

view them in 15 and 20 second clips on the news, but wars are still about men on the ground, boots on the ground. kill or be killed in certain situations. and to tim's everlasting credit, in addition to the work that he has done with sebastian younger and on his own, has really just alluded to, photographers, the great ones, and he was a great one, earn their respect and the admiration of the young men and women that they join in these efforts at war, which is a violent dangerous business that has an unending appetite for the lives of the young. >> so many americans are disconnected from what our soldiers. >> oh, yeah. >> our marines and sailors and airmen and people in the coast guard do everyday. they do believe, mike and have believed since 1991, when those images came back from the first gulf war, that showed neatly

precise guided missiles going into chimney stacks, that is nothing more than a video game. they could not be more wrong. >> i tell you, one of the reasons i find this so terribly upsetting is it comes in conjunction with -- it's almost like a double play, a morbid double play, the night before last, i had dinner with a young doctor from massachusetts general hospital, who is in charge of the wounded warrior project, deals specifically with tbi, traumatic brain injuries. he was recounting some of the stories of the young men that he is treating and dealing with, coming back from afghanistan. that are just horribly maimed and will remain maimed for the rest of their lives. he was pointing out that we live in a culture, where the tri-care system that the military has sometimes doesn't afford them all the care that they need to

receive. and that the health care system in this country is so prohibitively expensive for these families they don't receive the care they need through the health care system and we spend an enormous amount of time talking about things like charlie sheen and donald trump rather than how these young men get to mass general hospital, wounded warrior project and why tim heatherington is dead. >> let's go to the news now. two highly acclaimed, not just tim but two highly acclaimed journalists were killed in libya yesterday. photographer and oscar nominated director tim heatherington died covering a battle in misurata. and chris hondros also died later, after suffering a serious head wound. their deaths came just a day after heratherington tweeted ths in this besieged libyan city of

misurata, indiscriminate gadhafi forces, no sign of nato. the message proved to be prophetic. heatherington was killed by mortar fire. no stranger to the war, he was embedded in afghanistan, the results were extraordinary with younger writing "war" and herlgington producing restrepo. these images are from his book, "infidel" and "restrepo" heatherington co-produced with younger in the korengal valley. he was nominated for an oscar as best documentary this year. >> even "restrepo," too good to be true. we're going to die here, isn't that right, henry? >> they were leaving -- >> god will [ bleep ] our emotions and kill us on the

bird out. >> never coming back. >> yesterday, younger reacted to the news, telling "abc news" this. "he worked in a world where people risked their lives and died regularly so i don't even think it crossed his mind he was brave. he loved his work and he loved his subjects, for him working wasn't just about collecting images, really a way of existing in the world, a way of relating to people, a way of understanding the world and maybe improving it. tim heatherington and chris hondros were both 41 years old and every week, jeffrey sachs, young americans fighting in afghanistan face this reality. and the families that they leave behind at home, the wives, the husbands, children, it is an afghanistan and now in libya. he, of course, we came to know him through afghanistan. this has been happening now for a decade.

and generals want it to continue another decade and there are not enough politicians in washington standing up and saying, stop. this has to stop. >> this is so sad, but underlying it, as you're saying is there's no strategy, there is no strategy. also sadly, in libya, that message, no nato. they don't really have a strategy. they reacted, gadhafi is despicable, it's understandable why they reacted but they didn't really have a plan for success and we're in this stalemate, as the secretary of state says right now. we're in ady sass straudisastron afghanistan, going nowhere with money and deaths we can't afford. the public knows this but washington as usual is just stuck. >> norah o'donnell in washington, john boehner met with karzai and petriius and he

is now basically doubling down saying do not let political considerations get in the way of what we're doing in afghanista , suggesting he wants to stay even longer, as do most republicans. >> that's right, the speaker of the house making a trip to afghanistan to get a firsthand look at what's going on, on the ground. i do think, joe, there will be, with general petraeus there, after this summer, there will still be an effort to meet that deadline and still leave a huge number of troops in afghanistan, which is now costing this country about $2 billion a week. that's just in then money, the cost off the lives, of course, and the people who are maimed, our american soldiers is another huge cost not only emotionally but financially for this country. i do think we will see a change this summer. the last review done by the pentagon and presented to the president raised real questions about the strategy and plan, as jeffrey has pointed out.

raised real questions about whether we're making real progress. that is a question that continues. unfortunately it seems right now in the world we're stuck in a stalemate where neither side wants to be accused of losing a war we simply cannot win. when i say we can't win it, norah, we can't implement it unless we implement a war tax and draft and send 500,000 troops over there. that's the frustration. you talk to military men and women outside of afghanistan, they say they can't win the war yet every time the president starts to suggest he's going to bring some troops home, the republicans attack him, don't they? >> yes. that's true. i do still think that the question is, what is winning the war? what constitutes success in afghanistan when the number of al qaeda in afghanistan is small and the real issue is in pakist pakistan. and, you know, there are a lot

of military people who believe it's time to pull out of afghanistan. >> let's do a little math here. we're spending about $150 billion a year in afghanistan, right? we're about to talk about the budget. >> yeah. >> cia director says there are 50 al qaeda members left in afghanistan. i'm not good with math. you're an economist. what is 50 into $150 million? >> that would be $3 billion, right? >> so we're spending $3 billion a year per afghanistan fighter. >> doesn't seem like a good ratio, does it? >> let's see, $3 billion per afghanistan fighter. >> say high yield cost here. >> say high yield cost. >> i think this is a high unit cost. >> want to follow up. what is winning? let us define winning in afghanistan. when we went in there in 2001, winning was getting rid of al

qaeda, making sure al qaeda was not -- afghanistan was not a sanctuary by -- for al qaeda anymore. can we say since there are only 50 members of al qaeda in afghanistan, can we not put a mission accomplished rock, sign across a couple of rocks and leave? that's mission accomplished. i don't want to keep spending $3 billion per al qaeda fighter for another decade there. i don't want young men and women coming home dying without the president of the united states or john boehner or harry reid being able to tell their parents why they died. >> you used the word "stalemate," which is the right word. this is an experience this country has gone through before, of course. the stalemate precisely is don't do anything until the next election, don't take the plabla for leaving. both sides say this and this continues every two years, we could be doing this forever the way they're going. >> i would add at this point the afghanistan policy is insulting

to the intelligence of american people which understands the laws of diminishing returns, stay five more years, maybe things will change, 10 more years, they're not going to change, so cut your loss. >> we're blessed to be here and talk to american leaders and foreign policymakers and get an insight on issues other americans may not get. we hear what richard holbrooke, god bless his soul, god rest his soul and all these other leaders say on camera and then what they say off-camera. they will come on camera and they will stammer around and try to defend and afghanistan policy that is indefensible. then the second the camera turns off, they're like, we can't win this thing. nobody thinks we can rebuild having an or rebuild it the first time. it's a joke. all we're doing is we're spending $150 billion a year while our own infrastructure is crumbling in america, to prop up karzai, a corrupt leader, who

would bolt to the taliban in a second if he thought he could get more money from them and more security. >> the correct policy, joe, would require the president of the united states and a couple of other people, speaker of the house, people in political leadership, to tell the country a truth the country is already aware of. and people are aware of this. that there is no definition of winning in afghanistan, other than the contrails of the last c 58 to leave with american troops on it. 10 years from now, afghanistan will be pretty much the same way as it is now, no matter what happens in the next two years. the third point is that if we removed every rifle, every rocket propelled grenade from the hands of the taliban, they would throw rocks at us. it's their country. it's not our country. we've been there 10 years, it's ridiculous. come home. >> we've been there 10 years.

the generals want us to stay another 10 years. we've tripled the number of troops there in the past couple of years. it's a joke. >> you go around a lot, you've been home to florida, been around this country. people are so war-weary -- >> we have been -- mika and i say it all the time. we've been to college campuses all across the country, book tour, probably given 300, 400 speeches, i just haven't found the first person to stand up and say, this is why we need to be in afghanistan. i bet i could if we were talking about, hey, do we need to go into iran or pick out any country, pakistan, afghanistan, you can't find anybody to stand up and say, yes, this makes sense. because it doesn't. >> we may get some more insight on this from david ignatius, from the "washington post" and talk with author and middle east expert, robin right and later,

musician and producer pharrell will join us on the set from new york city. one more reason why soccer players should never use their hands. the most prized in spain crushed to pieces after a player drops it. it's stunning. >> are you serious? >> you have to see this. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> the best part is when the five firefighters run to save it. >> let's watch what's happening in the northeast. finally, a beautiful spring day. it won't be warm, don't get me warm. at least sunny in most places and dry. bring the jacket with you this morning. you can carry it home. as far as the forecast, 60-65 in d.c., a mix of sun and clouds. a little dhily. we'll take mid to upper 50s. thunderstorms atlanta to kansas city and chance of severe weather from dallas northwards, oklahoma city into areas of

kansas later on this afternoon. no tornadoes expected. nice beautiful sunrise over new york city. about time. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. discover customersl are getting five percent cashback bonus at home improvement stores. it pays to switch, it pays to discover. [ male announcer ] surprisingly priced at $15,995, the 2011 jetta has arrived. discover german engineering and premium style on the jetta s

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it's got a calculator. thanks, dad. this is the neighborhood. you get elm street and you get main street.

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order steven tyler's "you're my idol" cd and you'll get mel gibson's track absolutely free. call now! >> okay. let's try to get through the papers, taking a look at the morning papers. the "boston globe," bicycle sharing program. they will have a new way to get around. hundreds of bicycles available to rent at more than 60 hubs around the city. no local tax dollars being used, instead, the city is relying on grants, donations and corporate sponsorships. st. pete times says governor rick scott trying to repair his image saying 48% disapprove of the job he's doing.

since then he made a number of policy shifts and invited the media out with him to the panhandle. >> caught a lot of fish. jumping in the boat. "financial times," iphone and mac sales have helped apple profits soar in the quarter and are unable to keep up with demand. calling the product the mother of all backlogs. >> halperin doesn't have his and -- >> hap principl. >> and halperin -- >> they're smart, create a frenzy, don't have enough to keep up with demand. >> and jim, from "politico" playbook. how are you doing? >> good. i have my ipad 2. i finally beat halperin on

something. >> come on, an old texas instruments calculator? >> ti 49a. >> finally got his in the mail. >> exactly. >> let's talk about the debt limit debate. you have reporting that shows this might eat up the better part of the summer. what are you finding? >> eric cantor, the number two republican in the house said yesterday in a letter, we will allow the country to go into default if we cannot get other compromises on spending restraint on new taxation and spending. that's a big deal because they've hinted at it and now laid down that marker, a deeper line in the sand saying there has to be big structural reforms, maybe spending caps or balanced budget amendment, something attached to that debt limit increase. >> willie, this should not be a surprise to anybody. we've been saying the past three or four months, this is the issue the freshmen are focusing

on and saying get serious or we're not going to raise the debt ceiling. as we get closer, nobody should be shocked. >> what does the president give here? the house republicans say we want something in exchange for raising the debt ceiling. how much can or should the president give? >> i thought what was interesting, i don't know if you saw the video of paul ryan being booed in his own district when he had a meeting with the con sit you ants. they went after him basically chanting raise taxes on the rich. this is what the "washington post" poll also showed. i think there's a compromise to be had there. both sides have to move. if air rake cantor says -- if eric cantor says taxes are zero, republicans in broad public opinion have put themselves way into a corner and there's very strong sentiment on a compromise. if one side says no compromise, i think they'll end up politically losing. the whole country will lose this

way. s&p gave a negative outlook on u.s. debt. that's no small thing. we're heading towards disaster if we continue this kind of behavior. >> actually, the white house kind of dismissed that and a lot of democrats and progressives dismissed that report. you think that's a big deal? >> of course it's a big deal. look at the crisis all through europe on sovereign debt and the united states situation is objectively worse because our deficit as a share of our national income is even larger. the political gap is so wide and seemingly so stuck it's a very serious matter. >> it's been 26 minutes and we have not yet mentioned the words donald and trump. let's do that right now. jim, donald trump, a lot of people wondering how much money he's actually worth, if he does become a presidential candidate, he'll have to disclose his financials. you guys have done some digging. what did you find? ? a lot of people in new york think he's broke. one of his top advisors call us

and tells us if he does decide to run and put out that financial disclosure form he would report he's worth $7 billion and liquid to the tune of $250 million. which is more than a lot of people have pegged his net wealth at. the truth is with this stuff, you never know with donald trump. he is defined by he is bluster. so you don't know if he really is that liquid and willing to put a chunk of that money into a race, it makes him an even more serious candidate. he has said he would raise money if he was going to run, he would not self-finance the entire thing. >> "forbes" has the fig at $2.7 billion. the number you got was from his camp so we take it with a grain of salt. >> right. >> thanks so much. talk to you later. coming up, president obama pulls off the impossible at yesterday's facebook town hall, he gets mark zuckerberg to wear a suit and tie. impressive. major league baseball makes a pretty stunning announcement about one of its most stored franchises, a takeover of

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welcome back to "morning

joe." beautiful shot from the top of the rock of the upper left side. you can see all the way up to the george washington bridge. we will get to sports in a second, willie. but how about the indians? >> cleveland indians. first place, in baseball. >> the royals won yesterday. sort of fell off the cliff there but back. >> chris just said, hey, that would be great to do in sports. >> why don't we go to norah o'donnell in washington d.c., mika in the south of france, you remain on nebraska avenue. how's it working out for you? >> it was slightly warm this morning. >> getting better. >> getting better. first, the news. the fbi says it has identified a person of interest in connection to a pipe bomb and two propane tanks found after a fire in a colorado mall. the incident occurred after the 12th anniversary of the

columbine school massacre. the police released these pictures that show a man with a bag who entered the mall through a private door. the fbi is investigating the incident as a case of domestic terrorism. roughly 10,000 shoppers were evacuated from the mall. no injuries were reported. it is about two miles from columbine high school where two students killed 13 people and themselves back in 1999. a former rutgers student has been indicted on 15 charges related to the event surrounding the suicide of his former roommate. tyler clementi killed himself after a webcam was used on to spy on his same sex encounter. 19-year-old dharun ravi could face 5 to 10 years in prison. clementi's suicide and the aftermath sparked a national debate over bullying. iphones and ipads are keeping tabs where you've been.

security researchers said they found an unprotected file hidden in the devices that keeps a detailed history of a user's location each marked with a time stamp. it can track details of a user's whereabouts stretching back months or even years. the "wall street journal" reports it's not clear why the data is stored on the devices. there's no evidence that the information is transferred to apple. wow. >>no. it goes straight to the federal government. i am so glad -- there were years in my life i wouldn't want that around. now, it's like, joe's at work. joe's with his family. joe's at work, he's with his family. joe -- >> joe is at ihop. >> joe is at ihop. >> joe is at ihop, joe is with his family. seriously, it's such a boring life, willie, it didn't even raise my -- what? they know where i'm going?

willie, you wake up at 2:00 in the morning, willie's at work. willie's with his family. >> you wouldn't have a lot of fun tracing that on our schedule. pretty boring. dr. sachs on the other hand. >> my lord, look out. gps doesn't follow you to some of the places you go, dr. sachs. >> we get calls from the credit card company something's wrong, some purchase in mali and the next day a purchase in egypt and the next day a purchase in china. >> you're a nightmare for your bank, aren't you? >> that's all right. nothing wrong with that. >> you are a nightmare for your banker, aren't you? >> they don't know, can't imagine. >> mike barnicle. mike's at home, mike's at work, mike's at the ballpark, mike's at central park walking around erratically in the woods. with reflector sunglasses. by the way, just a public

service reminder as we show a shot of central park west, the public service reminder, spring is upon us. if you see an elderly man in a track suit wearing reflector shades, run away from the walker. >> looks like a nice day out there. >> okay. we haven't really -- we haven't gotten rid of the alert. so, ladies of new york, the alert is red. okay. mike barnicle will be in the park with reflective shades. stay out. >> mayor bloomberg has assigned some plain clothes officers to mr. barnicle. >> let's do some sports, shall we? start with the los angeles lakers, stunned some people by losing game one at home in los angeles to the hornets. game two last night, kobe bryant taking it to chris paul, a little bump there. the final seconds before the half, drains the three and time expires, still down six. fourth quarter, kobe with a nice

move, threatens through the lane, hangs, hits the shot. actually had 11 points, all the lakers would need from him, win 87-78, take game two, series even at one. san antonio spurs lost their game one to memphis grizzlies and that series now even at one also. yesterday, anything but a regular day at the bipartisanship for tballpark fo the los angeles dodgers, bud selig making a stunning announcement baseball is taking over the day-to-day operation from the owners, mccourts who have been involved in a long divorce battle hurt that finances of the team. i have taken this action because of my deep concerns regarding finances and operations of the dodgers and the best of all of major league baseball. frank mccourt questioned his actions saying they set strict financial guidelines all 30

teams must follow. dodgers are in compliance. on this basis, it's hard to understand the commissioner's action. selig says he plans to appoint someone to run the team. and will have approval rights over every significant expenditure of dodgers including trades and contract extensions. this has been a long time coming. a lot of people surprised but this is coming. >> two things precipitated it in the commissioner's mind is one, dodgers nearly inability to meet payroll april 15th he achieved only by getting a $30 million personal loan from fox and, two, the horrific beating of a patron, a fan on opening day, who is still in a coma, because of the lack of security in the dodger parking lots, which outraged the fan base and now you have a lot of fans from the los angeles dodgers refraining going to the game for security reasons, fear of getting attacked in the parking lot and their outrage over the way the

dongers have been run. >> do they have the power to sell the team? >> yes. >> they can sell the team to suitable buyers? >> the commission has not pulled the trigger on the best interest of baseball clause he could invoke at any time. when you buy a major league team, this is almost unheard of in the other industry, part of the agreement you sign prior to you purchasing the team is you give up the right to sue the commissioner of baseball. >> willie, how long has this divorce been going? >> 2009, fall of 2009. a couple years now. >> must be bitter. they're holding dodger baseball fans hostage, unbelievable. >> it's terrible and as mike said, attendance is down 11% this year, a half-empty stadium. >> yankees and red sox won but cleveland indians are tied for the best record in baseball. >> they find a way, i don't know how they do it, find a way, a bunch of kids love the game, playing for fun. they'd play for free if they

could. >> remember the time they spent $200 million in two days this summer? that was amazing. >> we don't even let those players play. we like players like lowery, who make major league baseball minimum play. >> tim carter dug deep and found today april 21st, 2011, is judgment day, according to the "terminator" films. >> tim is a dork, by the way. i don't know. he found it. at the phillies game we got a sample of what's to come, a robot throwing out the ceremonial first pitch, created by two university of pennsylvania students. >> they're also dorks. >> that's a hell of a robot. >> it throws like the president of the united states. can we try that again? >> i knew that was coming. skipped the ball halfway there. for now, we're safe. maybe this isn't judgment day after all. >> the clip you're waiting for. a soccer team has waited 18

years to seize the coveted prized -- >> this is huge! >> here's the parade, got the big trophy in hand. watch what happens. one of the players drops it. sergio ramos is the guilty party. >> oh, no! >> and the bus runs over the trophy. >> no, way! >> ramos drops it off the top and then the bus crushes it to smith smitherines. >> they tried to repair the trophy but beyond repair at this point. they won the title, 1-0 over barcelona but lost the trophy that symbolizes their great victory. >> soccer players don't use their hands. that was a huge victory, by the way for real madrid. what a way to end the night. >> why are they having their victory parade in this dark? >> that's another good question. >> what is the deal with those

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>> that should settle it. i take the president at his word. i have no problem and apparently the president wouldn't either, introduce that and we're done. >> this has been introduced. this story is over. >> well, as long as someone introduces it, i guess it's over. yeah. there you go. >> welcome back to "morning joe." michele bachmann on "good morning america." michele bachmann, we've been very blunt about our assessment of some of the reckless things she's said in the past. she does not appear to be following donald trump, willie geist, into the fevered swamps of birtherism. >> she's still -- they won't quite say it, send out that whistle, i take him at his word. also, she doesn't have to say it anymore, trump says it, as long as someone is saying it, people like her can hide behind it. >> norah. >> i think there is a divide within the republican party. there are those keeping the

birther controversy alive to revv up a certain segment of the primary base and others think it is an embarrassment to the republican party to continue talking about what is obviously ridiculous and nonsense. the certificate of live birth exists. the previous republican president -- excuse me, governor of hawaii, governor lindell said it is sufficient. this talk about the president was not born in the united states is silly and also dangerous, a distraction from what are really serious issues, the budget deficit, war in afghanistan, problems with poverty in america that affect a record number of children. these are all silly season. they are distractions from what are serious problems deserve serious thinkers and serious policy thinkers for this country. >> in the end, politically, it is extremely dangerous for the republican party and why republican leaders are distancing themselves as quickly

from donald trump as they did from sarah palin. one of those things that will give you a quick jolt offing f mr. -- jolt of political sugar. at the end of the day -- this is a lot of things people don't understand, and go to to you, norah, a lot of people in the political base, i'll say in media don't understand, the republican party wins presidential elections in the i-4 corridor, in the swing states of iowa and new hampshire. these are the type of issues that drive those independent swing voters away in record numbers. they need to understand what may help them do a little bit better marginally in primaries ends up destroying the party in the long run. >> it's entertaining. it's certainly entertaining to watch trump do this.

everybody enjoys, as david brooks called him, a blowhard. it's fun to watch. i actually think as journalists, there's a serious question here, which is what does don't trump want to do to perhaps end the war in afghanistan or does he want to continue the war in afghanistan? does donald trump want to continue the current rate of medicare growth or does he favor the paul ryan budget plan and the cuts that are in there? what does he think about the defense budget? >> and the responsibility also lies with media questions asking questions like this. they do ask questions like this. the first question that is always asked of him is about the birther issue. >> sure. because, you know, it makes headlines and also, you know, i do think he should be presented the evidence and we have to settle this controversy once and for all. i actually think the much more difficult questions is answer the question how you will solve the budget deficit. how you will try and end a war in afghanistan, those are the

more difficult questions, how are you going to create jobs in america. >> this birther issue is a smoke screen for what makes people like donald trump. i wrote this in an op-ed and got a lot of people angry not saying he was like ronald reagan but talking about how he appealed to swing voters. turn down the music, sorry, guys, i believe this is an important point. mike barnicle, in 1979, americans felt battered and bruised, we had the iranian hostage crisis, record high interest rates, gas prices going up, staginflation, a malaise in america, they didn't feel like they controlled their destiny anymore. the america their parents had, they didn't see. ronald reagan came along, said, let's seize the panama canal, let's not turn the panama canal over to them. we built it, we paid for it, it's ours. with donald trump, you have outside of the birther issue you

have him saying, let's seize the oil wells, tell the chinese to go straight to hell, tell opec -- there are parallels, as far as the message to an america that doesn't feel like they're in control anymore? >> there are except for the fact the birther issue is to trump and all the other republicans who embrace it a slow lethal infection. >> it is. the appeal of donald trump, though, think back to 1979, ronald reagan was mocked and ridiculed, basically told americans, hey, we're going to go out there and we're going to kick whoever gets in our way. >> this kind of populist appeal, it does have an appeal but it usually bursts pretty early on. i think this is pretty early days for trump. i don't think he has that staying power. >> anybody here think he will actually run in the end? >> no. >> i don't think -- is he serious? i just don't think he will in the end. norah, do you think he will in the end?

>> no. >> we shall see. we shall see. donald will tell you, willie, he's very serious about this. >> he said so. we'll see. i don't know if he wants to disclose everything that will need to be disclosed at the end of the day. >> i wouldn't want to. would you? >> no. god, no. >> up next, "news you can't use." what would "news you can't use" be this week without will farrell, again on conan talking about shaving that beard. we believe doing the right thing never goes unnoticed. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? with heart-related chest pain or a heart attack known as acs, you may not want to face the fact that you're at greater risk of a heart attack or stroke. plavix helps protect people with acs against heart attack or stroke: people like you. it's one of the most researched prescription medicines.

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south of france. time for a quick version of "news you can't use." keeping quick tabs on will farrell and his visits to conan. he threatened to shave that beard, two nights ago, displaying on a balloon what he planned to do to conan's face. last night, will was back. >> there's a hilarious new video of richard simmons someone found on the internet. yeah. it's really fun. let's check it out right now. ♪ >> hey, conan. no one wants to see your stupid comedy goof-ups. here's the real story, milaka. you know what they call your people in england, conan? you're a ginge, nothing but a dirty ginge. i got a taste for ginge beard. in my museum of ginger beards.

that's where it's going, right in the front row. i'm going to cut that beard off and put it in my especially beard satchel that i keep fashionablebly slung across my waist. i hope i don't cut you! i hope i don't cut you! haaa! >> that's coming. may 2nd. will ferrell. >> dirty ginge. up next, former national campaign director for ronald reagan, ed rollins will be back on "morning joe" and also, david ignatius, when we come back. [ jelani ] neither of my parents went to college. something that was drilled in me early on, you know, college is the place for you. it's my number one goal. ♪ students like me, who take these ap math and science classes and have these opportunities, this is where the american dream lies. when i write that book, you know,

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thank you so much, facebook, for hosting this, first of all. my name is barack obama and i'm the guy who got mark to wear a jacket and tie. the first time we had dinner together and he wore this jacket and tie, i'd say halfway through dinner, you know, he's starting to sweat a little bit. it's really uncomfortable for him. so i helped him out of his jacket. in fact, if you'd like, mark, we can take our jackets off. >> that's good. >> hey, welcome back to "morning joe." great to have you with us. beautiful shot of new york, willie. >> is spring coming?

>> by early june perhaps? >> it's 60. >> it's nice. >> spring. >> as close as we've gotten so far. >> beautiful shot of the city. we've had a miserable spring, not to complain. i'm sure it's worse somewhere like northern siberia. welcome back to "morning joe." we have mike barnicle and jeffrey sachs along with norah o'donnell from washington and with us political strategist and former campaign director for ronald reagan, ed rollins. he didn't do too well that year. >> lost that one. >> lost minnesota. >> what happened? >> as i told the president the next day who asked me what happened, we had to put nuclear waste somewhere. >> you win 49 states and the next morning, he asked you what happened in minnesota? >> did not campaign in minnesota. the president made a deliberate decision we did not want to go to minnesota and did not want to embarrass mondale. some people came to us and said if we did a recount we might have won it.

mondale was a very decent man and became our ambassador to japan. >> good guy. you also, of course, helped draw in mike huckabee's campaign in 2008, just a shocking result in iowa. he had two or three campaign workers. >> that was part of their strategy. i think what happened to mike is what often happens when the momentum catches up to the lack of organization. we saw it with buchanan and gary hart, a lot of times. you have to get out front of these campaigns, mike, a tremendous candidate and obviously if he goes again, we'll do it different. >> he is a great campaigner, a great guy. we love him here. we'll see what happens. willie, he's up in most of the polls. donald trump is up there making some noise but mike huckabee,

who really has laid low for a while -- >> not many people in the press even talking about him right now but still hanging around at the top of the polls. the conventional wisdom is this republican field is weak, is that your impression? >> no. they're not known nationally but all won in states like minnesota, like massachusetts, like arkansas. they're good campaigners. mitch daniels was my deputy in the white house. mitch knows as much about politics and much about the budget and foreign affairs as anybody. haley barbour, also worked for me, the best politician in america. these people are just not known, a year from now we'll see. certainly, obama wasn't known four years ago at this time and we were all ready to elect president guiliani. >> and in this cycle, the democrats were called the seven dwarfs, president clinton came out of nowhere and won that race. the president made his latest deficit push in silicon valley and held it at the hall

of facebook moderated by ceo mark zuckerberg and included questions from online users. the president talked about health care, job creation and reiterated his plan to raise taxes on the wealthy. his proposal received something of an endorsement from zuckerberg himself. >> what we've said is let's take another trillion of that, that we raise through a reforms in the tax system that allows people like me, and frankly you, mark, for paying a little more in taxes. >> i'm a cool guy. >> i know you're okay with that. >> the president also turned up the rhetoric on the budget debate, taking a shot at republicans' plans to trim spending on medicare. >> the republican budget that was put forward, i would say is fairly radical. i wouldn't call it particularly

courageous. i do think mr. ryan is sincere. i think he is a patriot. i think he wants to solve a real problem, which is our long term deficit. but i think that what he and the other republicans in the house of representatives also want to do is change our social compact in a pretty fundamental way. >> you know, saying he's a patriot, willie, that's better than saying his plan is un-american. he got some of those polls, saw the independents sliding away and came out a couple days ago saying reach out and touch somebody's hand. >> radical. now, he's saying radical. it reminds me so much, jeffrey sachs, of what bill clinton did in '95, when we tried to save med medicare, the trustee said it was going bankrupt. it's a radical plan and they want to cut taxes on the rich and throw old people out in the streets. barack obama can say what he wants but he's tearing a page

straight out of medic's scare. >> what's true is the politics is with him on this. public opinion poll show 70 or 80% of the public saying don't touch medicare. >> 70% of the tea partiers. that's my favorite poll of the week. tea partiers screaming a couple years less government, when you talk about slowing down the rate of growth of medicare, which we all know is unsustainable, 70% of them say don't touch the biggest driver of the national debt. >> it's a long educational process wave not done very effectively, continued to borrow money every year and spend it. people don't really believe there is a crisis. at the end of the day, we have a crisis. none of these plans are painless, all -- we're waiting for the president's plan, you're saying is running the same thing clinton, always been the rich or bad guys not paying their share and therefore going to throw the elderly in the cold and take

milk away from the kids. >> wouldn't it be reasonable if republicans came forward and said, okay, if you cut the rate of growth in a dramatic way for medicare and medicaid and social security, we'll make cuts in the pentagon and also reform the tax code in a way that makes corporations, the rich pay more taxes. >> i hope all of that occurs. i think at the end of the day, it may, not sure about this political environment. you may have to have another election and have a change in the senate that will take place and may even have a change in the white house. at the end of the day, as the president does this sitting among people paying $38,500 fund-raising. he could have not taken his deductions and made more money than any modern president running in office and could have said, i'm not taking any deductions, i will send full payment. didn't do that. equally as important, it's all rhetoric. at the end of the day, all of this is tough, you've been there, understand it better than anybody and no easy choices.

certainly, elderly don't want to lose medicare and don't know what's coming next. the young people have an obligation to somebody be responsible and not put them so far in debt my 16-year-old is paying for things she'll never see. >> there are no easy political choices but as far as the math goes, it's easy. reality is medicare's spending growth unsustainable. medicaid spending growth unsustainable. to a lesser degree in a generation, social security, unsustainable. pentagon spending, unsustainable. if the democrats will step forward and agree to all of that, republicans have to say, we haveto reform the tax code in a way that does not allow the oracle of omaha to pay 14% on the billions he makes every year and not allow ge to pay zero in taxes and not allow exxon and mobile pay zero in taxes. that's logic, nothing to do with politics, everything with math.

>> you mentioned logic and political choices. i still have had no one really explain to me why the obama administration missed the opportunity i would decline as an opportunity to plant the flag a year ago on the bush tax cuts and say, no, we will let them expire, we will let them expire and we will fight to the last democrat in this house and senate to have them expire. why did they not do that? that is such a winner. >> they started out in the wrong direction. they inherited a trillion deficit and then they added to it. that was the fundamental mistake at the beginning. the stimulus package and playing games, thinking larger deficit was good for the economy. they made a huge mistake at the beginning. >> jeffrey, they added a trillion at the beginning. >> they added to a trillion deficit. >> $900 billion stimulus package. >> over several years. >> over several years, a trillion there and then a trillion after the midterms two years later, another trillion. >> i think the point is both

sides have taken every easy option so far. nobody's been serious except the debate and the reality is the deficits have been so huge, we're at the absolute top of the high income world in terms of our deficits and we're going to get hammered by this. >> as you know, nancy pelosi i've known all my political life, we grew up in northern california together, she and her democrats, many from california, many of your friends, were waiting for a long time to have have the second fdr. when they got obama they thought we will do all the things we want to do, reform health care and do all kinds of things and never basically took the long view. they got dealt a tough hand, that happens to presidents, basically not put us on a course. the president basically didn't take any of the bowles simpson bill up and put it on his budget. it's dead on arrival. promised us in his speech last week there would be a plan, no plan, the only plan, raise a trillion in taxes. as long as that's the debate, republicans won't cooperate.

>> the president got handed a very very tough hand. they didn't make things easier. >> no. as ed says, a lot of republicans on capitol hill feel like the president is not serious in this process. they come out with -- the ryan plan and very dramatic cuts and believe his only plan is raise taxes on the wealthy. the big question is where do they meet in this middle there? >> i think this is a really tough question. the vice president will have a meeting on may 5th, bipartisan meeting members of congress have to get together. wall street has already indicated they're not hopeful a deal will be struck. we have to be clear of the cuts being proposed. republicans no doubt are proposing politically unpopular cuts to medicare. that's clear. they would privatize medicare through a voucher system. those 55 and over would be grandfathered in that clause. in medicaid, it would become the unfunded block grant to the states. be clear about where these cuts are. as most people who studied this,

two-thirds of the cuts in the republican plan would be made on the backs of low and middle income americans. that's a fact. that's something the white house believes they can shape into a message and run on. >> medicare is the biggest financial issue right now. >> no doubt. >> the fact is that is a middle class entitlement. when the president runs around and suggest old people are being thrown in the streets from a radical plan to give tax cuts to the rich, that's just a lie, not fact. it's a lie. he's not talking about people on medicare right now. this is a trick and i know because i dealt with bill clinton doing this for four years, this is a trick liberals do. they claim you will get granny 78 right now with her pill bottle and you will rip the pills out! throw them in the street and go, granny, you're out of here! we're talking about people in their 40s. no, listen, no. we can't have the media go on and on and allow these democratic charges to go

unanswered. if anybody out there is listening, let those this holy week with ears hear. no. stop. i'm sorry. granny is not going to be thrown out in the street. if you have medicare right now, you will keep medicare. if you're on medicaid, you will stay on medicaid but for future generations of grannies and grandpas, me, people my age, 48, i can't get what my mother and father are getting. it is unsustainable. if that wants to be demagogued by barack obama, i hope republicans, jeffrey sachs, have the puts to te the guts to tell the truth. >> just a point. the ryan plan doesn't actually do anything on medicare for a decade. >> right. nor for a decade! >> for medicare, for the poor, it starts slashing now. that's really absurd, frankly, to go after the poor right now. >> hold on a second. jeffrey, let me ask -- i want to stay on medicaid for a second.

this is, again, it's math. right now, medicaid is growing at 7%, you and i would both agree, it can't continue at that rite ryan wants it to grow at 2%. you and i both agree that's not enough. the answer is somewhere in the middle. i'm agree with you on the block grants. i'm not with ryan on the block grants. let's start the conversation. >> here's the problem. you can't fix the health care system by medicaid. if you reduce the spending on medicaid, you just cripple the access of the poor and the health care. that's the problem. to fix the health system, we have to go after the whole system. both sides duck that because the power of the health industry lobby prevents us -- >> i want to talk about the health system. this is important. i have to let norah back in. go. >> i wanted to ask you, joe, there is a difference, right, in reforming medicare in slowing the growth of medicare, perhaps increasing payments for those under 55 or creating a voucher

system, which is what paul ryan is proposing. that's the difference in approaches. we all acknowledge costs out of control. people under 55 have to pay more, medicaid is not going to be a great a grant as it was before. the question is, do you want vouchers or more premiums paid by those getting medicare. >> what i'm saying is, medicare is a middle class entitlement. that is why medicare and social security are always the last things that are touched by republicans and democrats. they will go after medicaid. they will go after the poor. the poor is always an easy target in washington d.c. but these middle class entitlements, medicare and social security to a lesser degree are what politicians never touch because people, ed rollins on medicare and social security vote in extraordinarily high numbers. this ain't throwing the poor out on the street. politicians aren't scared of the poor, they ignore the poor, they're scared of middle class a

arp voters. >> any great society takes care of its poor and elderly. governors have a very serious problem. medicaid became an unfunded mandate in many cases and put a big burden on governors who do have to balance budgets. we have a bigger problem in the country than washington d.c. these state governors have to do something. what the ryan people at least talks about is giving them some flexibility. this is a beginning. >> then it cuts the money going to the states. >> this is the beginning of a step. let's not kid ourselves. >> stage one of negotiations. eds and brewed the coffee. we heated the bathwater and gave kelly a cleaner ride to school. cooked the cube steaks and steamed the veggies. entertained dad, and mom, and a neighbor or two. kept watch on the house when they slept. and tomorrow we could do even more. we're cleaner, domestic, abundant and ready now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power today. learn more at anga.us. over 145 years stability and still

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their decision to send in military advisors they characterize as an effort to protect civilians. part of what everybody has seen is there is no experience in the opposition military personnel. so there is a desire to try to help them be more organized and we support that. we're not participating in it

but we support it. >> not likely to be drawn into it. >> no. >> we're looking at a stalemate? >> i think it's too soon to tell. i think that, as i counseled my foreign minister colleagues in berlin last week, we want to get to a point where there is a resolution, and it has to be a political resolution, but it may not be as quick as all of us would like to see it. >> welcome back to "morning joe." great to have you by thes with us. you know, we sit here and we talk, and then we continue talking during the break about health care. this really is so complicated, we need to -- chris is going to have another brain hemorrhage when i say this, but to get to this, we talk so much more about policy on this show than anybody else does on any show anywhere for three hours.

it's not enough. we need to talk for three hours on these budget issues and health care. you're so right, medicare, medicaid, there are so many different issues that even talking for 15 minutes, you don't have time to scratch the surface. americans need to understand like they need to understand what's going on in afghanistan, they need to understand why we're still so far away from handling this debt crisis because we still have the health care crisis. >> of course, the problem in this country is when we did the health care debate, the real issues of health care were never discussed. because when the lobbies descend on this process, the real issues get shunned to the side. you watch this spectacle you can't make any sense of it at all. the health care debate really comes to something that's barely talked about, which is the incredibly high costs of the private health provision system. if you don't go after that but the lobbies prevent it, you can't fix medicare, you can't

fix medicaid, you can't fix the rest because the bulk of our health system is overpriced, a private led overpriced system. >> let's bring in david ignatius, joining us from washington, a columnist for the post and author of the upcoming novel, "bloodmoney." let's talk about libya. it is on the front pages, sadly because of noted photographers including tim hetherington. we also learned today $25 million of u.s. money will be headed to libya. the government -- our government says, for non-lethal equipment. where are we right now? it's kind of faded to the back burner, at least in the american consciousness in the last couple of weeks. where are we and what is the american involvement right now? >> first on the ground, secretary clinton was asked the question, was this a stalemate and the answer surely is yes. she ducked it. it's clear looking at it, it's a

stalemate. nato's actions providing some additional people to work with, train, equip the libyan rebels in the east is an attempt to rebalance that situation. there's not enough nato force, i can see, that's going to lead to a victory. the administration strategy, as explained to me by people in the white house, is to do everything we can to squeeze gadhafi, so that his regime eventually implodes. they thought when they had defections, people coming out of tripoli that might be happening. it's slowed down now. that's still their goal, get some kind of coalition government between people who left gadhafi, reconcilable in that way and some of the rebels on the deaths of these photojournalists yesterday, these were some of the really brave and gifted people in our profession. for everybody in the news business, it's a tough day.

>> mike barnicle. >> david, on the ground in libya, it appears you have a rather leaderless group, a rag-tag group, with old weaponry, new weaponry they don't know how to utilize. what seems to be the obstacle in that we have, on paper, at least a few of the nato countries, and the united states, even a few of the countries in the middle east behind removing gadhafi, and yet nothing coherent seems to come together on the ground on nato's behalf to push back the gadhafi army. what is the obstacle here? >> mike, i think the biggest problem is that we didn't know the people, who were the rebels, personality unfamiliar to us, weapons, command and control. we're in a classic ready, fire aim situations where we're now going in trying to figure out

who are these people? we're sending intelligence officers in to get to know them. part of the nato mission we were just discussing is about getting to know the people and the lay of the land. it's fair to say if you were going to pick a rebel army that might form a new stable government, you wouldn't pick this crew. but you work with what you've got. the reality is this uprising exploded in libya and we've been reacting ever since. >> david, jeff sachs here, how are you? looking forward to your new novel. was this a miscalculation by the government or no calculation by the u.s., the brits and the french, because we went in presuming something was going to happen and it's turned out quite different. >> i think essentially, joe, it is a reaction to events. the administration felt that we were within hours of a slaughter

of rebel forces in bin bin -- benghazi. if something wasn't done, you would be looking at thousands of death and there was a decision to move. i heard former british secretary david milliban say at a lunch in boston last week, a stalemate is better than a slaughter. suppose we have a stalemate, it keeps ongoing and six months from now, still a stalemate, libya is a little country, doesn't matter all that much. that would still be preferable to the deaths of 5,000 or more people. i think it's the way people look at it. their hand was forced by actions on the ground and had to respond quickly and this is what they did. >> isn't this a total underestimation of gadhafi now in glory and been on stage and gets to wear his funny costumes and on television everyday and two sons and a daughter tougher than all of them. why we all thought he would roll

over in his grave like mubarak and he will be there until we kill him and if that's not our object we should get out. >> i've met gadhafi. he's the strangest character i've over seen on the world stage. he looks like a nut. that view that he's a mad dog, as reagan said, face to face, you couldn't go the other way on that one. i think that there was reason to think and still is reason to think this regime is still more vulnerable than it would look today. the real reason is it depends absolutely on cash from its oil exports. this is a regime that runs on bribes. bribed its african neighbors to come in as allies and mercenaries, bribes the tribes of libya to support gadhafi, a cash flow business. if the cash is cut off, one of the goals of the u.s. policy, it

will be weaker, so weak gadhafi will -- who can say? that's the idea. >> david ignatius, thank you so much. great to have you here. i can't wait for the book. >> i hope you will like it. >> i know i will. the book is "bloodmoney." jeffrey when you're flying all over the place, you will read it? >> i will get that one. the director of "everyone loves raymond" attempts to recreate the hit show in russia with some unexpected results. >> this is hilarious. >> keep it right here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] want to achieve more with your money? pnc virtual wallet gathers your spending and saving in one place. credit and debit purchases, checks, bills, and other financial information.

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that was a picture of the self-described most handsomest man in the whole wide world, louis bergdorf. >> aging teen idol went back to the scene of the crime last night, where he launched his leif garrett-like career. >> he did. last night, the annual opening kick-off of the festival featuring elton john and our own

louis bergdorf couldn't help himself stopped by and put in a song request with sir elton. ♪ >> what are you guys doing here tonight? the 10th anniversary. >> elton john. elton john. >> i don't get paid to watch movies but -- >> are you just here for elton john? >> i'm here for elton john. >> my mom played some elton growing up. >> so you know it? >> yeah. >> will you sing "tiny dancer" for me tonight? >> i will be playing "tiny dancer." ♪ ♪ [ applause ] >> thank you so much. >> that's the signal -- >> in that interview, turn --

>> he interviews the star and turns to the camera -- >> can we have that? >> did he say, get out of my way? >> get out of my way. >> i love it! . >> beautiful. bergdorf at the tribecka film festival. "morning joe" will be live in london for the entire week. did a you hear about this, joe? in london. >> what time? >> 11:00 a.m. >> i like it a lot. >> i know somebody going out to pubs late into the night, willie. >> indeed. i will see you there. >> up next, an exclusive look at this week's "time" magazine, rick stengel, a big one, time 100 with an interesting member of the list. the mayor may or may not be sitting on this set. [ male announcer ] brach's jelly beans,

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welcome back. with us now, "time" magazine's managing editor, rick stengel, here to reveal the latest issue of "time" magazine, the time 100 list they do every year. >> the time 100 list of the most influential people in the world. not a hot list, not a power list, act the power of 41 floridian in fluence of power. because of the tragedy in japan and middle east, we have a disproportionate number of people from the middle east and asia and have enhanced all those events. >> you also have somebody in here, what a shot. i would guess no op-ed this year got americans talking more than

this woman in the "wall street journal." it started a national debate. >> yes. we put two tigers in annie's bedroom, the great prophet of tiger moms and has caused that great debate. it's a lovely and wonderful picture of her. >> also, here is a man that was a punchline at times during the campaign, who has actually become one of the most powerful forces in america because he's such a key player in the white house. >> yes. >> the vice president. >> the thing is what you have to do when you're looking at a u.s. administration, obviously, the president of the united states will be on the most influenceal list every year, who do you choose to put it on. biden is the deputy in chief, figuring out the toughest things for the administration.

>> and a real leader, great shot of jeffrey canada. glad to see him on the list. a great shot. jeffrey canada, in part because of the movie and everything he's done over the years is a tremendously influential force in american education. >> a force right now in the middle of the debate, chairman of the budget committee, paul ryan. why is he on the list. >> written by scott walker. paul ryan has really shaped the debate about the deficit and the debt. whether you like his proposal or not or think it's bold north, he put something on the table that has galvanized everyone else to reckon with those issues. there's somebody you're missing. >> are we burying -- >> i think i so snooki. >> where is snooki. there it is. chris christie, a guy we talked about a bit, fantastic.

a lot of republican contenders entering a presidential year, the republican party has had a rebirth and renaissance and had problems as well. quite a lot of republicans on the list, michele bachmann on the list as well. >> we varied the lead here. let me do it. matt winer. seriously, what he did last year on madmen, i don't know if you follow it or not -- >> i do. it was breathtaking from the first to the last. this keeps getting better. >> it's true. it's hard to make it better year after year. speaking of which -- >> julian assange. >> that's a picture of julian assange. >> you interviewed him. >> we did. it was the end of last year. he's obviously had difficulties and controversies but still shaping events and perception of events and who knows what will happen. >> let me ask you about this. okay? >> okay. i can't see but from here.

>> blake lively. why did you put blake lively on the list? >> she's shaping perceptions of young women around america and the world. very poised. >> on the left we have -- to the other side of the page, "will & kate." over here, the whole world looking at will and kate. >> yes. she's a fashion icon now, the soft power of great britain. why people are spending all this time on such a frivolous matter, i don't know. >> right smack-dab in the middle. >> what is that? >> this is a horrible clerical error made by "time" magazine. >> what is this? >> i don't know what you guys are smoking over there. >> how did that get in there? >> i don't know. >> joe scarborough in the time 100 this year. >> i couldn't find anyone to say anything nice about joe. i strong armedto. >> he said nice things. >> my constituent, has to say something nice. >> trying to get your vote for a

fourth term. >> you have joe on the list. why did you put joe on? far be it f . >> far be it for me to say something nice about joe. every day you shape the national and international conversation about the things going on. people in the white house watch, people in the fed watch, for better or worse, you're stirring that pot of coffee every morning. >> i'm like hitler, for better or worse. >> it's the whole show. you couldn't put mika and the mayor mentions mika and willie and mike and all of us. >> and chris. >> of course, chris. it's very interesting, we didn't realize when british prime ministers come over, they say they watch over there and you had the most fascinating conversation, willie, with somebody from cairo. >> ambassador's office. >> before the uprisings in cairo. >> i thought they were kidding. it's on in the afternoon there.

said it's in the afternoon news. they get msnbc and that's where they get afternoon news. >> excerpt, mayor bloomberg writing about joe, joe speaks his mind without fear or favor because he puts his country before his party. served for seven years as a republican congressman from florida but a patriot before a politician. that independence is what makes joe scarborough such a valuable voice in american politics and makes "morning joe" such a successful show. the most important part, that and the real star of the show, mika brzezinski. >> we know that. wherever we go, people talk about mika. >> we miss her this morning. >> we do. it's all this boys club here. we need mika this morning. >> finally. >> yes. >> finally, recognition. >> joe biden. are you a big joe biden fan? >> huge. i love joe. >> we have a rule on this show, you can't say anything bad about him. one editorial rule. >> has he been on the show?

>> yeah. he watches everyday. >> during the last election campaign, just the personal pelast election campaign, just the personal experience i had coming on and the rest of the day, people say, hey, i saw you on "morning joe." >> the follow-up question, is joe really that much of a jerk in person? >> everyone wants to know. >> the answer, yes. well, listen, the list has gone to hell this year. thank you for coming on anyway. >> great list. >> we appreciate it. >> great issue. >> all right. >> thanks a lot, rick. >> time's 100 most influential people in the world. pick up a copy. up next, everyone loves raymond, repackage for a russian audience. this is hilarious, really funny.

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you want to prove that you're a man by taking my splinterout. >> you -- don't you make me -- give me the splinter. >> ah! what are you doing? >> no. no. i -- give me the splinter! >> stop it! please. i need to have -- >> that was a scene from the sitcom "everybody loves raymond." the man behind the show, phil

rosenthal, has a new program called "exporting raymond." a documentary that follows his often hilarious attempts to re-create raymond for a russian aidians. take a look. >> it's time to meet the comedy on the russian network pup meet him and he doesn't look like a head of comedy. and he gets around to saying -- >> when i read "raymond." >> it is not funny. >> i don't have to come to moscow to be told i'm not funny. i could hear that in my house. >> that wasn't really the head of comedy. you hired a guy. >> i wish. you pray for certain things like that. he actually gave me very hard time. i don't know if you saw the end there, but he says, the shows he loves from america are "the nanny," "married with children ". when i read "raymond," that's not funny. >> the show "everybody loves raymond" exported around the world, the actual show dubbed

over in the language of the country. but this is different and you documented this in russia? >> exactly. the first attempt to take the show and have another country do it. with their actors. right? and their directors, and their heads of comedy. >> so somebody as ray romano, who's not ray romano, not as funny as ray romanromano. did you know this would be a bizarre experience? >> they invented the sitcom business in russia, i was told. the sitcom forum did not exist until sony brought "the nanny" over there about five years ago. they came from all these different backgrounds, that guy, the head of comedy, came from the world of lasers and science. to adopt this new form. >> it's a natural lead from lasers to comedy. >> so this is who you're working with over there. it's like the "wild, wild west." he said, how would you like to go over there and observe how we do it and then come backened

write a feature, fictional film about someone who goes over there to have a show adapted. i said that could be funny, but if the situation really exists, these people really exists, why not bring a camera crew over and film what really happens, and so that's has we did. >> at what point did you know, we've got a hit on our hands with this one? >> probably about the third episode, to be honest. filming in front of an audience, an the audience laughed for over 30 seconds at a joke. and i just remember turning to somebody and recognizing that moment. that you might have something here. that they were hooking into the characters. you know? one of the things i was trying to explain to the russians was to have a live audience. champion they didn't have and didn't want to have, and i said, but it brings so much to the show. wouldn't you want a live audience? it does so much. he said, we would have to get chairs. >> is this the guy with the lasers -- the laser guy?

>> it is funny. that's funny. >> serious. he was serious. they wanted to save money. >> so aside from the former head of russian lasers becoming the head of comedy, who are some of the other characters we encounter in the film? >> the very first production meeting i have, a beautifully dressed woman says, i believe the show should be used to teach the russian population about high fashion. she was the costume designer, and no matter what i said, a lot of the show, you know, takes place in the house. she thought that the deborah character should be wearing evening gowns, to clean up, do the dishes. >> "green acres." >> she said, because they're on television. >> i said, yes, but they don't know they're on television. right? they're supposed to look like us. do you dress this way at home, i would say to her? every day she came in in a fancy outfit. she started dressing for the movie. >> because she wanted to be discovered.

>> one of the big reasons, "everybody loves raymond" why it still works here, you like the characters in the show. you like them. russia -- >> yes. >> how do you find -- how did you find, develop, not find, characters who the audience would like? >> that's half the movie is trying to find those people. you know? and i think it's universal. when you see somebody who's funny. let's take roberto benigni. if you go to a movie, can't read the subtitles. you know that that guy's funny. funnier than the guy he's standing next to. there's something about people. so i'm trying to find this there. and they're heritage. their whole background is in heritage. the moscow museum. i'm thinking they'll have this sensibility. no. the sitcoms they're used to are very broad and they think that's what the people want. very shticky, very broad stuff.

they're looking for jim carey, who's wonderful, but not "raymond." not that they have to be ray ra mo romano, just every man. >> interesting to see if a country where the most popular tv show is sea good morning siberia." >> their version, "everybody loves moscow." >> an incredible story. can't wait to see this. the film is "exporting raymond." where can people check it out? >> april 29th in select cities. >> we'll do it. phil rosenthal, thanks very much. more "morning joe" when we come right back. ♪

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there are young men out there's who are, and women, bearing a burden for the society, and we need to understand their experience in the nuances. the war's been extremely politicized and the left and right are using these guys as kind of symbols and we do them a disservice, and, also, if you are either for or against the war understanding what these young men, how they're likely to respond in war is going to inform what strategy you should think about. good morning. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. turning to the set with us, msnbc contributor mike barnicle, director of the first institute of columbia university, dr. jeffrey sachs, and in

washington, d.c., msnbc chief washington correspondent norah o'donnell. willie's been on the show several times. their work in afghanistan, critical. absolutely. i think he had said once they were trying to build a bridge between the american people and what our soldiers and marines do in afghanistan, and i would say that tim hetherington who died yesterday in libya did more to bridge that gap along with sebastian than just about anybody else. >> yeah, he did. came out with a book of his photographs called "infidel" and co-produced a great documentary, incredible account of battle company, the army units, efforts in the valley and if you need to know has kind of respect tim hetherington had from the people he was with, he wasn't just a filmmaker. one of the majors was interviewed yesterday from the valley and said he didn't lose a photojournalist yesterday. we lost a brother. he was one of us. so -- >> and he -- he was, you're

exactly right, willie, he was a friend of the people that he worked with, and in war zones. he understood the dangers that they dealt with every day, and respected them for it, and, you know, i called mika to give him the news. she had worked with him to try to put together something to get us and other people to go up to west point. he -- he loved those kids up there, and he understood the sacrifice that our soldiers were making. >> you know, joe, photographers are different. they always have been. and tim obviously was the eyes and ears for the world on a couple of different wars. we forget, because we live in a culture where wars have been turned into video games for large percentages of people who view them in 15 and 20-second clips on the news, but war, still about men on the ground,

boots on the ground. kill or be killed in certain situations and to tim's ev everlasting credit in addition to the work he has done with sebastian younger and on his own is really just alluded to. photographers, the great ones, and he was a great one, earn the respect and the admiration of the young men and women that they join in these efforts at war, which is a violent, dangerous business that has an unending appetite for the lives of the young. >> so many americans are disconnected from what our soldiers and our marines and our sailors and our airmen and people in the coast guard do every day. >> oh, yeah. >> they do believe, mike, and they have believe since 1991, when those images came back from the first gulf war, it showed uniquely precise guided missiles going into chimney stacks, that

this is nothing more than a video game. they could not be more wrong. >> i'll tell you -- one of the reasons i find this so terribly upsetting is it comes in conjunction with -- it's almost like a double play. a morbid double play. the night before last i had dinner with a young doctor from massachusetts general hospital who is in charge of the wounded warrior project. deals specifically with tbis. traumatic brain injuries, recounting stories of the young men he is dealing with, coming back from afghanistan that are just horribly maimed and will remain maimed for the rest of their lives, and he was pointing out that we live in a culture where the tricare system that the military has sometimes doesn't afford them all the care that they need to receive, and that the health care system in this country is so prohibitively

expensive for some of these families that they don't receive the care that they need through their health care system, and we spend an enormous amount of time talking about things like charlie sheen and donald trump rather than how these young men get to the mass hospital, wounded war project and why tim hetherington is dead. >> let's go to the news now. two highly acclaimed, not just tim, but two highly acclaimed photojournalists were killed in libya yesterday. photographer oscar nominated director tim hetherington died covering a battle in the rebel-held city of misrata. pulitzer prize nominated photographer chris hondros also died later after suffering a serious head wound. their deaths came just a day after hetherington tweeted this -- in besieged libyan city of misrata, indiscriminate shelling of gadhafi forces. no sign of nato.

it proved true. he was killed in war. along oscar, and the results extraordinary with runger writing war and hetherington co-producing "restrepo" taken from hetherington's book "infidel" a documentary with restrepo, the film chronicled the life of american soldiers in afghanistan's soldiers in the korengal valley. nominated for an oscar as best documentary this year. >> meeting restrepo, it's too good to be true. we're going it die here. isn't that right, henry? >> we're leaving instead. >> guy, going [ bleep ] with their emotions and kill us on the bird out. >> never coming back.

>> yesterday junger reacted saying he worked in a world where people risked their lives and died regularly. so i don't even think it crossed his mind that he was brave. he loved hits work. and he loved his subjects and for him working wasn't just about collecting images. it really was a way of existing. a way of relating to people, a way of understanding the world. they were both 41 years old and every week jeffrey sachs, young american americans fighting in afghanistan face this reality, and the families that they leave behind at home. the wives, husbands, the children. it is in afghanistan and, the of course, now in libya. he, of course, we came to know him since afghanistan. this has been happening now for a decade and generals want it to continue another decade and there are not enough politicians in washington standing up and

saying, stop. this has to stop. >> well, this is so sad, but underlying it, as you're saying, there's no strategy. there is no strategy. also sadly in libya, that message, no nato. they don't really have a strategy. they reacted, gadhafi is despicable. it's understandable why they reacted, but they didn't really have a plan for success, and we're in this stalemate, as the secretary of state says right now, and we're in a disastrous situation in afghanistan also. it's going nowhere, except for deaths and money we can't afford. the public knows this, but as you say, washington as usual is just stuck. >> just stuck. norah o'donnell in washington. of course, john boehner met with karzai and petraeus, and he is now basically doubling down. saying, do not let political considerations get in the way of has we're doing in afghanistan,

suggesting that he wants to stay even longer, as do most republicans. >> that's right. the speaker of the house making a trip to afghanistan to get a firsthand look about what's going on on the ground, but i do think, joe, that there will be with general petraeus there, that after this summer there will still be an effort to try and meet that deadline. it will still leave a huge number of troops in afghanistan, which is now costing this country about $2 billion that's just in the money. the cost of the lives, of course, and the people who are maimed, our american soldiers is another huge cost. not only emotionally but financially for this country. i do think we'll see a change this summer's. the last review done and presented to the president raised real questions about the strategy in the plan as jeffrey pointed out. questions about whether we're making progress. >> yeah, well that is a question that continues, unfortunately. it seems right now, norah, we're

stuck in a stalemate where neither side wants to be accused of losing a war, but we simply cannot win them. had i say we can't win them, norah, we can't win it unless we're going to implement a war tax, a draft and send 500,000 troops over there, and that's the frustration. you talk to military men and women outside of afghanistan. they say they can't win the war, and yet every time the president starts to suggest he's going to bring some troops home, the republicans attack him. don't they? >> yes. that's true. i do still think that the question is, what is winning the war? what it cons -- what constitutes success in afghanistan when the number of al qaeda in afghanistan is considered small. that the real issue is in pakistan, and -- and, you know, there are a lot of military people who believe that it's time to pull out of afghanistan. >> well, let's -- let's do a little math here.

so we're spending about $150 billion a year in afghanistan. right? because we're about to talk about the budget. okay. so cia director says there are 50 al qaeda members left in afghanistan. i'm not good with math. you're an economist. what is 50 into 150 million? >> that would be 3 billion. right? >> so we're spending $3 billion a year per afghanistan fighter? >> it doesn't seem like a good ratio, does it. >> $3 billion per afghanistan fighter. >> i think this is a high unit cost that is a reality. i want to follow-up. what is winning? let us define winning in afghanistan. when we went in there in 2001, winning was getting rid of al qaeda. making sure that al qaeda was not -- afghanistan was not a sanctuary by -- for al qaeda anymore.

can we say since there are only 50 members of al qaeda in afghanistan, can we not put a mission accomplished rock -- sign, across a couple of rocks and leave? because that's mission accomplished -- i don't want to keep spending $3 billion per al qaeda fighter for your decade and i don't want young men and women dying without the president of the united states or john boehner or harry reid being able to tell their parents why they died. >> you used the word stalemate, which is the right word, because this is an experience, this country has gone through before, of course, and the stalemate precisely is, don't do anything until the next election. don't take the blame for leaving. both sides say this. this just continues every two years, and we could be doing this forever, the way that they're going. >> though i would add i think at this point our afghanistan policy is insulting to the intelligence of the american people. >> really. >> which understands the law of diminishing returns. if we stay five more years, maybe thingless change, ten more -- they're not going to

change. why not just cut your losses and walk? >> we're blessed to be able to be here. talk to newsmakers, foreign policy people and get an inside look on these issues that other americans may not get, and we hear what richard holbrooke -- god rest his soul -- and all of these other leaders say on camera and then what they say off camera. they will come on camera, stammer around and try to defend an afghanistan policy that is indefensible, and then the second the camera turns off, they're like -- we can't win this thing. nobody thinks that we can rebuild afghanistan, or even build it the first time. it's a joke. so all we're doing is, we're spending $150 billion a year while our own infrastructure is crumbling in america to crop up karzai. a corrupt leader who would bolt to the taliban in a second if he thought he could get more money

from them and more security. >> the correct policy, joe, would require the president of the united states and a couple of other people, speaker of the house, people in political leadership, to tell the country a truth that the country is already aware of. and people are aware of this. that there is no definition of winning in afghanistan, other than the contrails of the last c-5a to leave with american troops on it. that ten years from now, afghanistan will be pretty much the same way as it is now. no matter what happens in the next two years. and the third point is, that if we removed every rifle, every rocket propelled grenade from the hands of the taliban, they would throw rocks at us. it's their country. it's not our country. we've been there ten years. it's ridiculous. come home. >> we've been there ten years. the generals want us to stay another ten years. we've tripled the number of the troops there in the past couple

of years. it's a joke. >> you go around a lot. you've been home, to florida, you've been around this country. people are so war weary. >> mika and i say it all the time. we've been to college campuses and all across the country, book tours. probably 300, 400 speeches we've given. i just haven't found the first person to stand up and say, this is why we need to be in afghanistan. now, i bet i could if we were talking about, hey, do we need to go into iran or -- pick out any country indiscriminately. pakistan. afghanistan, you can't find anybody to stand up and say, yes, this makes sense. because it doesn't. coming up next. we're going to bring in the author robin write in her 2008 book predicted dramatic changes in the middle east. i remember her being mocked for those changes. she looks like nostra daknaus n

notice tra dame is now. and i love bill. joking. bill's got a check of the forecast. >> stop playing so hard to get, joe. let's chat about this. we are going to watch a simple forecast from boston to d.c. thunderstorms in the southeast. take you into it. nice day today. not too warm, not to chilly. 60s and 50s in most areas of the midatlantic up into new england. another storm in the northeast. back through alabama, mississippi, heavy storms this morning in arkansas. look at the severe weather threat today, we're going from shreveport to dallas northward. large hail, damages winds. not many tornadoes in the forecast. tomorrow, heavy rain developing in the ohio valley. a good one to two-inch rainfall amount along the ohio river. already flood watches for that region. for washington a d.c., that rain heads our way friday night, saturday. boo-his. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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historic time for one region in particular. the middle east and north africa. today the long arab winter has begun to thaw. for the first time in decades, there is a real opportunity for lasting change. a real opportunity for people to

have their voices heard and their priorities addressed. >> that is secretary of state hillary clinton speaking for the u.s. islamic world forum just few weeks ago. spotlighting the change, mike barnicle going on, the arab spring, start fld 2005, and continues. you know, tim used to have robin wright on "meet the press," and, of course, she's just as good as it gets. right? she writes this book -- >> prophetic. >> right. so she writes this book "dreams and shadows" back in 2008. she predicts everything that's happening right now. and a lot of people attacked her. right? you said, oh, well, either she's -- she's a utopian thinker or she's an apologist for bush. none of those things, and you brought up an interesting parallel. >> sam huntington's book, "class of civilizations" roundly

criticized for predicting much of what robin just predict and i think in both cases but especially robin's from her reportorial background, "los angeles times" and all that, she knew something about the united states government clearly doesn't -- >> didn't know. >> there since the early '80s. "dreams and shadow." we'll bring her out in a second. i want to read this from the introduction. she talked about the u.s. explosion in '83. is loumic extremism is in the most energetic force and yet a generation later islamic extremism is no longer the most important or dynamic force in the middle east. the hard core terrorists in al qaeda have proven they can destroy and yet they have yet to prove tangible solutions or viable new models for the problems making the region. and she says they've been replaced by the pajama warriors

increasingly capturing the public imagination. again, this was written three years ago. governments have a new kind of opponent said an egyptian blogger. we are not bound by government rules like political parties. we can use the language of freedom, he told me. we offer an alternative voice, especially for the young. robin wright, thank you so much for being with us. it's stunning. isn't it? and i remember the "new york times" review. i remember other reviews. it just didn't seem to understand what you saw coming. talk about what's happened over the past six months and how you saw it coming in 2008 when nobody else did. >> well, in all fairness, "new york times" did pick it as one of the best books of the year, but -- >> bastards. they didn't just come out and say you were right. but, go ahead. i'm sorry. >> this is one of the most important turning points in the 21st century and we're seeing a whole new decade begin to take

shape just as 9/11 defined the 21st century, defining a different direction, a different political idiom and different kind of future. i think we're going through three different kinds of phases when it comes to these uprisings. we saw egypt and tunisia unfolding quickly, in large part because the military understood the reality they couldn't fight their own people. in libya, in syria and in yemen we're seeing a different dynamic, where the military won't cede power. and buying off people with oil wealth, but where they're also finding real serious challenges to the kinds of political futures they have, too. >>fascinating, robin. i didn't even remember marking up your book but i marked it up a great bit, and at the beginning i divided the countries the way you divided

the countries and you talk about the monarchies and you talked about the family dynasties. how fascinating on the family dynasty side you had libya. egypt, yemen and syria. and we see the monarchies right now holding firm, surviving, and yet it's these family dynasties collapsing. why? >> well, in part because they are newer. they're just a father and a son in the case of, in syria, and fathers and sons being prepared to take over in egypt and libya and in yemen. but they don't have the kind of legitimacy. these were also countries that pretended to have elections, and they were never legitimate. they were clearly in some cases rigged openly or heavily predetermined by the regime. so they have always been more vulnerable. they also had, in many of mees countries, more access to the outside world through the internet. looking back at that book i

actually wrote about the facebook and youtube generation and they have cleavely been so important in creating an alternative idiom for people to understand what's going on everywhere else. >> and by the way, mike, she does talk about bloggers, facebook, and all of these other technologies that had such a big impact. did it get the people out in the street that day, because i know some said we're overselling it making it about western technology. maybe not. as robin said, starting back in '05, '06, '07, it created a conversation that never had been had before and she predicted -- she predicted it would be the youth of the middle east that would make the greatest change? >> the idea of freedom in the middle east and anywhere else, it's contagious. it's a truly contagious idea. my question, robin, is that each of these countries that we've seen in the headlines and continue to read about and witness today from libya to syria to yemen to saudi arabia, each of them, egypt, has adapted

to this tidal wave of change and accepted pats of this tidal wave of change in inkraments. the question, what does washington do in the short run and the long run about adapting to and accepting the change, because it might not be what we think it's going to be. >> absolutely. and i think this is where we're going to be very uncomfortable in the years ahead with some of the regimes, as people try to experiment with who's viable, who's credible? who can actually provide the kinds of economic and political choices that they haven't had in the past? and i think there will be a role for some islamic party. not extremist parties, but parties that look at themselves, identify themselves, as in turkey, as in morocco with an islamic identity. so it's going to take a little bit of, a greater sophistication for us as well in understanding

the local politic. we're used to relying on one man and now we have to understand these are democratic societies, too. >> robin, willie geist. had all of this blew up in libya and the president announced that the united states was going to intervene along with its allies, the question a lot of people asked was, if the idea here behind american policy in this case is humanitarianism, ave averting a humanitarian crisis, why not do it in other countries? still, shots in the streets of syria. what's your best answer to that question? >> i think the administration is vulnerable to criticism, because you see our involvement in libya versus both syria and bahrain, in the little island of bahrain where the 5th fleet is based we basically turned a blind eye to very widespread demonstrations. we've bought the saudi arabian government this is sectarian issue, about iran when really it's about the same thing as it is everywhere else.

down the road this is going to be difficult. the administration made a fundamental change in the way it looks at democratic issues. it walked away from allies we've had 30 years. hosni mubarak in egypt was the pivotal player in the middle east peace process. because of the will of the people, the administration slowly began sow see the writing on the wall. in february we went through a critical period where the administration did a 180-degree flip in initially trying to figure out a way to engage in reforms so that mubarak could stay to understanding that mubarak had to go. i think we're still in that process of understanding the change elsewhere in the region. >> robin, you begin your book, "dreams and shadows" of course, if you haven't bought it out there you need to buy the book. you began with the bombing of the u.s. embassy in 1983. so much of what you covered in beirut and lebanon, across the middle east was focused on arab rage, muslim rage against

americans, against israel. the most shocking thing for me over the past six months has been this, the demonstrations with millions of people out there, very few american flags burning. very few israeli flags burning this is -- and we've commented here. this is not about hatred towards the united states. this is not about hatred towards israel. this uprising has everything to do with these countries themselves. it's remarkable transformation. why? why is it happening that way? >> well, i think that, first of all, the arab world, we're dealing with a population, 300 million people. 100 million of which are between the ages of 15 and 29. that's one-third of the entire population. and their focus, because they understand the outside world and the historic trends happening elsewhere they're focused on their own future. the united states and israel are down the road. those are not their primary

concern. this is why this is an extraordinary moment no just in political change but also in terms of our relationship with part of the world where we've had arguably the most contentious kind of confirmation as we see still playing out in afghanistan. >> all right. can we call her nostradamus? robin, am i going to get a raise? am i going to be able to lose 20 pounds? can you make any other predictions? will the red sox come back and win the world series? >> oh, i hope so. i'm a big red sox fan. >> good for you. come up to fenway! barnicle's there every day, whether they're playing or not. so, all right, robin wright, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you, joe. >> and, of course, the book is "dreams and shadows" and her new book, "rock the -- comes out in july. when soccer players should

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welcome back. to "morning joe." willie, handball.

you can't use your hand in soccer. so, say, that -- >> the little hands. >> the little hands. they just -- the little hands are -- they kind of hold things. >> this video is incredible. check this out. soccer club real madrid waited 18 years to win the coveted trophy. >> what a way to do it. barcelona. watch -- >> whoops. top of the bus. 30-pound trophy slips from the hands of sergio, one of the players and then is run over by the bus. >> oh, that's ugly. >> you hate to see that. the police tried to recover it, put it back together. the damage, though, too great. >> ah, you just hate to see that. >> and mike barn ikal brings up a great point. why are they having this victory parade at night? >> that's an important question that a lot of people are asking. >> americans want to know. also what's going on in wall street. a check on cnbc's international

superstar erin burnett. >> willie, you know what? she never drops the -- what's going on on wall street? >> jobless claims second week in a row, lackluster report on that. a drop in people filing for unemployment, joe, not as big of a drop as wall street hoped for. you may remember, last week a little weaker. two weeks in row above the key level 400,000. doesn't mean the labor market is deteriorating, it just isn't improving as quickly as it was. we all know it wasn't improving as quickly as it needs to. that took a little bit of the wind out of the market sails. still a solid day. in part because of apple. >> really? >> apple really blew it away. and no matter what you think of long-term apple, an amazing report. in terms of iphones, 18.65 million, they sold. the .65. sliced one in half. versus the estimate of only 16 million. in terms of iphones. ipads, sold 6.69 million.

supposed to sell 6 million. not because of weakness. because they couldn't -- they couldn't make as many as people wanted. there's a bag 3 log. described the demand for ipads, staggering. they don't usually talk like that. for now, incredible. apple shares continue to rise. >> erin, the ipad when it was introduced, steve jobs always goes out, introduces new products, the lot of us say we have to get that tomorrow. remember when he had had an ipad what is that? come on. what is that? but it is -- i mean, the ipad and all of these other tablets, fundamentally, the bigger story here is, it is going to revolutionize media, because people are going to be watching us on that, in three, four, five years all the time, because they're going to be able to stream it. going to be able to watch whatever they want to watch wherever they go. it's -- that is the revolution. >> it is. what's interesting is, we also have the numbers earlier from intel. they actually had -- remember,

talking about the leap in demand? >> yeah. >> from companies buying new pcs. whether -- >> yeah. >> things on your desk. and a lot of people said you're going it see these ipads and these tablet devices sort of cannibalize companies, in terps of what employees use. it seems least for now that's not necessarily true. so interesting to see how that plays out over time. you'll see shifts in terms of who has power in technology. so -- >> what about intel? 20 years. you know, a lot of timing you see companies explode and then they -- intel, though, the tra jeblgttry over two decades, remarkable. >> it has. see what happens to pc. all adding up together, joe, this morning it leads to this, that global stocks are now at 33-month high putting them back to where they were in the summer of 2008 just before fannie and fred h freddie had to -- before frank paulsen needed a bazooka.

right before that moment when things really started to get bad. we're back to that level for global stocks. >> unbelievable. erin burnett, international superstar. >> see you guys. have a great friday and long weekend. >> all right. you, too. mike, you'll remember this intel story. i don't know if anybody else around here will, they exploiteded '91-92. before that story after story after story how america was in decline, late 80s, early '90s because we couldn't make these chips. japan would dominate. intel coming along, blows them away and has dominated -- nothing's inevitable. >> gordon brown here two weeks ago said practically the same thing. why are people so melancholy about the united states and economic conditions? somewhere out there is the next new thing in this country. the next intel, the next apple. >> no doubt about it. willie, hoop coming up? >> excited ak this, grammy award

winning producer, musician, fashion designer, pharrell and fashion designer tyson, coming up next on "morning joe." [ thunder rumbles ] [ male announcer ] the motorola xoom. designed to access anything and everything on the internet with adobe flash. upgradable to 4g lte for blazing-fast web surfing.

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were back to "morning joe." joining us now -- >> wait, wait. where's barnicle? >> like a cat playing with a ball of yarn. >> no idea what he's looking at. >> doesn't work with polyester. won't work. >> we'll explain that ball of yarn in a second. here with us now, musician, producer, fashion designer, pharrell williams and fashion executive tyson, form up to form the eco friendly company returns texttimes whose special bionic yarn technology has a potential to dramatically impact the fashion industry and the environmental movement. guys, thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> tyce's, start with it. what is this yarn you've

created? >> mike's very confused. has is that? >> this is our patented process where we use recycled bottle fibers into yarn to make everything from clothing to furniture and so on. >> what's the process? how do you get from this plastic bottle on our set to clothing? >> well, the bottles are taken and recycled into machines or bins, turned into chips. from chips they're turned into fibers. from fibers, weave them into our yarn process. >> pharrell, what can this do not just for the fashion industry but the environment? why is this so important? >> it's sustainability, which our government is -- is really excited about, and they're very rewarding to that point as well. like, for us, we're just saying, you know, instead of creating more polyester to include in, like clothes right now, we can just -- >> are you wearing polyester? >> never, pharrell. come on. >> that's a blend. >> there's a blend. that's what i said.

polyester -- sorry. >> just kidding. >> okay. >> no, no. his polyester counts 100%. but go ahead. >> we just can, like, you know, instead of creating, you know, a bigger carbon footprint, like you know, you could actually sustain by, you know, recycling. it's just -- it's a cool movement and we're ambitious. we don't want to be just simply fashion as you know and as we know it, but we want to go into the armed services. the armed forces. >> that's great. >> you're already -- your footprint's expanded. timberland, top shop -- you've got, already, a lot of people are using this. >> when i take my bottle and throw it on the street, toss it out the car window, when i go through rich people's neighborhoods i love to do that, what i am losing or you're losing is the ability to turn

this plastic bottle into this yarn? >> yes. >> how does that work? >> that was a commercial in itself. >> that was a commercial. >> i am -- i'm just an old guy. i get confused easily, but what's happening here? >> how does this work? >> the liquid form of the chemical that makes the plastic bottle, ends up in a yarn is the same polymer. when you meant it back down you can repurpose it into a fiber. >> what's the interest on a larger scale? have you spoken to designers and different kinds of people who say, yeah, we'll take a look at this or at least introduce it into some of our lines? >> the interest is a practical way to be resourceful right now. everyone drinks bottled water. has bottled packaging. this is a good way to get it into yarn. >> and pharrell should know about this, by the way. 2005, best dressed in the world. >> really? >> "esquire" magazine. he doesn't even know. he's so cool he doesn't know -- >> no, i know. what am i supposed -- yeah, yeah. sure. >> i'm saying, you know from

what you speak here. >> when they brought the process to me i was in such disbelief. this is the collaboration question at gap right here. don't want to rattle the mikes and have the producers get upset, but this t-shirt and this hoodie, 12 bottles in the hoodie, four for the t. we make jean, seven bottles, right? takes seven bottles. >> wow. >> again, just so everybody out there in, like, online and tv-land, we're not saying to you simply give us a bunch of bottles we're bog to make you levis. we're saying that, you can effectively blend our process in with whatever way that they make their clothes or their textiles to, you know, sustain. it's superexciting. for me -- i couldn't believe it, because it's just -- you know, i don't know -- >> what got you going on this? >> it's soft. >> oh. it is.

never know the difference. >> what got you into this. what got you moved to do this? >> because, to be honest with you, like -- and, you know, as a musician, you know, we -- we have to live a certain lifestyle, just by virtue of just being in our business. so we travel a lot. you know. and it's very easy for someone to look at, you know, your scorecard and go, you know what? you're up in the air quite a lot. and actually, when we did -- i worked with the live earth guys right around 2005 or 2006 or whatever, and rush limbaugh gave me the hardest time, because, you know, it was like my first time really stepping into that world saying -- that was me just trying to be, like, culturally and socially responsible to say, you know what? okay. yes. i know i'm a musician. i know i travel a lot. i know there's tons of things i'm doing that's adding to the sickness of the planet. so let me do something that make as balance.

so when that -- so when i tried to do that, he kind of said, you know, here's a guy that you know -- here's a guy that travels and, you know, probably landed his plane on top of this place and he's talking about, like, the earth. so i needed to find something that was legitimate that i could do that i believed in, that i could just come back and say -- >> probably need a computer to figure out how many bottles it would take to make rush -- >> oh, just stop it. >> so much easier. >> one thing -- >> he's going into space. he's a nerd. he like s "star trek." >> i love the discovery channel. i watch t. and you love "star trek." >> i love "star trek." >> a report online you'd accept an offer to fly virgin galactic into outer space with branson is that true? >> take the ticket and continue watching the launches like everybody else.

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hey, welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what he learned today. willie, so much we learned today. what did you learn? >> i wouldn't say i learned this, but i was reminded of it. willis bergdorf, finest interviewer in all of man. signature move, he turns that big toothy grin and looks at the camera while the subject is speaking. >> and the subject in this case, at least sir elton's assistant, the woman smiling. two seconds later wasn't smiling. hey, get the hell out of the way. >> what we say to him all the tile. mike, what did you learn? >> i learned a couple of things joe. first of all, soccer play is -- don't use hands for anything. dropping the trophy. also, i know you share